Marketing is effective when it is useful and impactful, and we get actionable advice on how you can be both from Giulia Porter, VP Marketing at TelTech, a mobile communications apps company best known for RoboKiller, a robocall blocker app that is also one of the top-grossing apps in its category. Guilia, a Mobile Hero recognized for her app marketing achievements, shares the channels and strategies her team relies on to acquire and retain audiences. She also shares advice from her blog, zeroing in on the key components of a robust tech stack and the importance of choosing the right “mobile-first marketing automation platform” to align with your app and your ambitions.
And we’ve kicked off a bit of a mini-series that I’m enjoying over the last years actually where you come in and every two weeks or so, we are going to have someone who’s going to tell you how to grow your app because that is their daily job and we’ve been looking at verticals, we’ve been looking at regions, we checked out Indonesia recently in a first here on Mobile Presence, check out that show. And another first today, we’re looking at the utility vertical which is a high growth vertical, I’ve looked at some research here, you know, poised for high growth, amazing engagement and lots of great lessons that we can all learn and that’s what we’re going to do here because our guest today is Giulia Porter, VP of Marketing at TelTech. Giulia, great to have you here on Mobile Presence.
Thanks for having me.
It’s great to have you and as I said, you know, we have this special sort of mini-series, we look at Mobile Heroes because that’s what you do, you’ve achieved some success that has earned you the title of Mobile Hero as chosen by Liftoff, a full service mobile app marketing and retargeting platform. Tell me a little bit about yourself. I mean, you are a Mobile Hero so what do you think was that accomplishment or that superpower for you?
Awesome. Yes, so a little bit about me. I’m Giulia with a “G”, like the wedding singer, everyone likes to say. I lead marketing strategy for RoboKiller, the RoboKiller is a robocall blocking app that fights back against spam calls using robots and machine learning, which is really fun. We’re actually – our organisation is actually called TelTech, we’re actually a mobile portfolio largely around like privacy communication, been around for a few years now, RoboKiller is about two years old.
So in terms of becoming a Mobile Hero, you know, really just been kind of heads down on working on RoboKiller’s growth, like I said, the app itself is about two years old. My biggest achievement to date I think really is the growth of RoboKiller. When I first started working at TelTech, joined as the first marketer at the time, we were a new app, we had about 10,000 installs a month. Since that time, well over a year, we’ve generated well over 10 million installs, you know, according to Sensor Tower, we are the top grossing iOS utilities app since late 2017. So, really that riding that wave of growth through a lot of different marketing channels has been really exciting.
I would say of that whole experience, the most rewarding of that timeframe in growing RoboKiller was getting us over the finish line for an IAC acquisition back in October 2018.
That’s quite a track record, I was aware of the app being amazing, I didn’t realise it was that consistent in being amazing since 2017, being a top ranking and top grossing app – what did you say, the utility app?
That’s right – the top grossing iOS utility app.
Exactly, that’s quite an achievement. I know from a good source, we’re on our way possibly to another achievement for you, maybe a Forbes 30 under 30, who knows...
Yes, they sent me some good Forbes JuJu, whatever that...
Exactly. Do a raindance for you here, absolutely. I mean, I’m just curious, we have app marketers here, mobile marketers all the time and say what started the spark, what is it that makes you do what you do because everyone comes at this from such a varied background. The same for you, I mean, RoboKiller, that’s a type of an app that you don’t sort of wake up saying, “I want to do this” but the way I understand it is you also have some personal experience and said, “Hey, I want to battle this”.
The one thing I think I really like about mobile is actually a lot of the backgrounds that I think most mobile marketers have, everyone tends to be fairly scrappy in terms of their experience. You know, most of the people I meet either maybe started in mobile midway through their career, late, like early career and I think just that whole experience is really fun because I think a lot of people are willing to do a lot of learning quickly, that’s what mobile requires.
You know, I think for me personally, right before I joined TelTech, I was working at HubSpot, I was working as a consultant, consulting mid to enterprise businesses on marketing automation, marketing strategy, digital marketing. Every time I was meeting with customers, I was leaving those conversations feeling like I really just want to throw up my hands, get in the weeds and like do it myself and really put what I knew to the test. I had just kind of started my job search out of HubSpot, was ready for that next step but actually the day before, a recruiter reached out to me about the opportunity at TelTech/RoboKiller – my mom had actually fallen victim to a Microsoft scam while I was at home actually, and that was really a frustrating, very serious experience – we were changing all the credit cards, it was bad.
And so I think, you know, talking to the recruiter literally the next day I think really sold the opportunity pretty immediately. You know, I think that it’s also, you know, because I had that experience personally, you know, that was a cause I could really get behind. I agree, it’s not like a super sexy app, you know, but I think we’ve made it really fun and I think that was really the hook for me to get into mobile was both the excitement to learn something new and also right the cause of the app in the company that I was joining.
Well, full disclosure, you know, I’m going to be checking out some of your apps and downloading one – thank you so much for the promo code. But I’m just curious at a high level, this is a different type of app, you need to communicate your value proposition differently, you need to acquire users differently, you know – it’s a utility, it’s useful and that’s different from sort of being in your face and saying, “Check this out because it’s cool”, it’s “Check this out because it’s useful”. Is that something that in a way you find challenging because if I look at your marketing background, it’s all really been about very straightforward marketing. This is more about marketing literally the utility of the utility.
I actually really like utility, you know, I think with RoboKiller specifically, one very good problem that we have right is most people – if you have a smartphone, you get spam calls, right, so we’ve almost had a marketing challenge where the audience has been so broad, so we’ve had to focus like really on market segmentation in terms of like UA creatives and messaging in general and we’re still working on that but I think, you know, RoboKiller is a type of app that I think the solution itself, problem solution, you’re getting spam calls, we block them, is one that I think when it’s put in front of customers largely through, like I think, UA and that’s what makes that great is once you see the solution, you’re like, “Oh yeah, absolutely I get spam calls”. I think it’s something that once it’s put in front of you, you’re immediately compelled and I think, you know, of course RoboKiller does a great job of blocking spam calls but one of the really great hooks that I think we’ve had in general is what I would call customer delight at the end of blocking spam calls, we’re using robots to mess with tel marketers and you get to listen to that hilarious recording at the end.
So just like the cherry on top and I think those combined together really helps generate like some pretty strong conversion rates on UA. So I think that has been what’s made that so exciting right, because you get to talk about the product, you get to tell people what it does and most people are getting spam calls so they’re typically pretty bought it. It’s something that’s very relatable that we found, like, I have yet to find a person that I’ve talked to, either about RoboKiller or spam calls, that’s said I never get robocalls, everyone gets them – it’s kind of like the one thing we can all agree on in 2019.
Kind of cool that you sort of like give it to them at the end. I’m based in Europe, so it’s a little bit different – I’m sure it’s coming my way which means your app will be, you know, a hit here if it isn’t already, even more so because we don’t have the problem yet, we’re going to get it – we’re always about 3 years behind the States, where I come from originally anyway. But, you know, it’s probably a great way to entertain and retain in a way because I am shown, in a very humorous way, the value proposition of what you offer.
Definitely. Yes, I think in terms of retention marketing for RoboKiller, I think one of the challenges that we do have, right, is we are an app that is removing distractions, right, spam calls are very interrupting, if you’re working, you’re answering the phone, you’re getting distracted. So, part of our retention marketing challenge related to push notifications email is trying to find the balance between not being obtrusive and interruptive but also being useful, right. And so I think with that, we have focused a lot of more organic product experiences to remind people that we’re working for you in the background and I do think answer bots are a great way to just add that customer delight that reminds us that, you know, hey, we’re still working for you in the background, you might not have gotten any spam calls most recently but check out this hilarious answer bot reporting – I think that’s been very helpful in terms of retention long-term.
Well, it’s a great way to sort of stay top of mind because hopefully it reminds me of my favourite anecdote about retention that was just so eye opening for me... I was interviewing here on the show actually, someone in healthcare, he was like, hey, retention doesn’t look like that for us because you hopefully are not getting sick every single day, you hopefully don’t need a doctor every single day and I’m hopefully not getting spammed every single day so it gives you a way to be present, be top of mind when I’m not reaching out to you to use you. Is that the idea?
Who came up with that? Was that you? Do you want to take credit?
No, I could not take credit. Hilariously, answer bots were not, I think, might go off the record for product, but I don’t think the answer bots – they were a last minute addition to the early product roadmap and they’ve proved to be quite a good hook. So, shout out to the product team for putting that one together.
Absolutely, that’s a great way to stay top of mind and it also proves in a nutshell what we’re always talking about, product is the new marketing. I mean, you guys have to work closer together – is that what happens there?
Absolutely. I would actually say one of my closest friends at TelTech is our Director of Product, we started at the very – at very similar times in our early entry level roles at TelTech and so through that we have worked very closely together on growth, product improvements and then vice versa, right, his name is Dan, Dan is very involved in giving us working suggestions, telling us what’s working, what’s converting, you know, loves that stuff too. So, it’s been really, really integral I think to our product development and our product success.
So shout at to Dan, I would say?
Shout out to Dan.
Shout out to Dan, got it. I’m just curious in a word here, you know, we’re going to be going to a break in a moment but I know so many people who are like, product marketing, they’re in silos, everything is grand. I know other people say, no, do something about it. What would you say to someone listening in on the fence saying, “Okay, this is the way you need to put together your team”. What would you say if you wanted to convince them that they have to work as closely with their people as you are with Dan?
Definitely. I think there’s kind of two parts of that, right? I think what you addressed initially was team silos. I think some of that comes from how many generalists versus specialists you’re adding on your team. A really good diversification of people who are highly specialised in things like push marketing, right, is great, but I think you also need a few generalists who I think generally get bucketed into like probably the growth marketing category who can talk pretty high level, fairly below the surface in a lot of different verticals. They can jump in on UA, they can provide feedback or ideas on push, they’re also looking at product experiences, so I think when you have some generalists who can also get specialist outside of just their primary focus, that opens up some of the gap between the diversification.
And I would also say in terms of bridging the gap between various teams that should be involved in product development, to be honest, what did it for us was data. Being able to look at product analysis, behavioural analysis and work together on improving KPIs like our trial retention rate I think really brought people together, right, because we were looking at the same data, providing the similar if not various ideas to improve those metrics – I think that was something that really brought the team together holistically and it’s something we keep to date and I think it’s really helped us maintain a pretty strong level of collaboration.
And that’s a great segue, couldn’t hope for a better one because that’s what we’re going to be talking about after the break, we’re going to talk about data, we’re going to talk about your mobile growth stack and loads more, listeners, so don’t go away, we’ll be right back after the break.
And we’re back to Mobile Presence. I’m Peggy Anne Salz with Giulia Porter, VP of Marketing at TelTech and a Mobile Hero sharing her insights which is exactly what we’re here to do, Giulia. So, you were talking about the teamwork, I thought that was great, and you’ve given a lot of other great tips in a blog and listeners I’ll tell you about that in just a moment and also it will be in the show notes where you can read up on it. But, what I loved about it is I love things that are straightforward, you know. You’ve taken a topic like the mobile growth stack and there’s tons of blogs out there that turn it into something that’s like a 3-dimensional chess game, right. I’m sure you’ve seen those models, I’ve seen them at conferences – it’s like what is that, building a spaceship, splitting the atom – no, it’s a growth stack. No. And here was have the mobile growth stack in four key components, super simple to read. Maybe that’s not the be all and end all of them but I’m just wondering what inspired you to sort of break it down in this way? Did you look at everything and say, hey, you know what, no-one’s getting this, I have to do my job here and translate it for us all?
Yeah, I think generally my mantra is to try to cut through the fluff as much as possible and just get right to the point. I think being specific as a marketer is very important and really also in leadership. Coming from HubSpot, I had some experience in mobile but did a lot of learning quickly on my own through a bunch of different blogs, Appsflyer and Grow.co are two great resources, the Appsflyer blog, really learned a lot just through sifting through a lot of their content. Grow.co. is a weekly newsletter.
Through all of that thought leadership, I was actually thinking maybe a follow-up post to this would be all those kind of the ridiculous kind of over the top diagrams of various tech stacks and flows just because some of that – at TelTech we like to share some ridiculous ones we have – I have a few in our archives. But I think going back to just being specific, right, there’s a lot of very high level pieces of thought leadership and I think the easiest way to just cut through all of that is just to get to – starting at the foundation and I think that was really what inspired me. I’m not really that involved in thought leadership, it’s not really been my thing just because we’ve been working super hard with RoboKiller and building a team, but I think this is a good place to just talk about foundations and being as explicit and direct as possible about what worked for us with also understanding that this is a conversation, right, it’s not a blueprint.
There were things that we certainly tried that we read on blogs that did not work for us, you have to think that is super important to keep in mind while also keeping this specific and yet conversational.
Well, you know, I love the list, it’s very simple – a database you own, I love that too by the way because you do have to own the data. A lot of people think, oh, it’s second party data, third party data, let’s just mash it up, mix it up and see what happens. No, data that you own, right. Mobile measurement partner, mobile first marketing automation platform, love the mobile first and I’d like to deep dive into that in a moment, and a data visualisation tool, absolutely, because we are not all able to do this in our heads, we’re not all that nerdy type, not all of us anyway. So, I like the last two, let’s talk about that. You know, mobile first – what does that actually mean here because it has a meaning, it didn’t just – you didn’t just choose marketing automation because I’m writing tons about that, this is something different.
Yeah, absolutely. So, obviously I mentioned that my background was actually coming to TelTech was in marketing automation. You know, I think most marketing like mainstream marketing automation tools like HubSpot, Para, Marketo, those are great, right, but they’re built for B to B enterprise marketers who are doing a lot of marketing – I think it’s moving to mobile a little bit but a lot of that has been on desktop for a long time. You know, when I came to TelTech and we were working on building our tech stack, we did look at a lot of different vendors for specifically mobile first marketing automation platforms, some people also covered CRMs, we did a lot of digging into the technical set-up just to try to make HubSpot work but ultimately we just found that the work involved in making that work for mobile was just going to be way too much for time investment with very little reward.
So, I think that’s something that you should really take for when you’re looking at anything within your tech stack, right, the cost of implementation, how much do you have to make that work for you because I think that will give you a lot of answers in what’s a good fit and I think ultimately that’s what helped us decide, like, hey, we’re going to actually go and look for a more specific CRM, marketing automation platform that has an SDK, right, can easily integrate with push and that’s measureable and that’s tied to a user account we can actually, you know, correlate marketing initiatives to performance outcomes and having that all integrated in one place that really can then integrate with our apps directly, I think was really important and you’re using some of just the analysis of opportunity cost when we were looking at non-mobile first marketing automation platforms versus mobile-first, we use Leanplum – I think that was integral in finding a tool that really worked for us, we love Leanplum, it’s been really great.
And you also integrated that very closely with the mobile measurement partner, you know. I mean, I think that’s very smart, people are saying, “Well, I have CRM” which is great and some people are actually just getting that which is fine – welcome to the club. But, you know, by itself, it’s not as effective as if you’re using the data you’re getting like from the very first moment and then using that to, I don’t know, augment or enhance what you’re getting from CRM – was that a difficult interplay or a different – a difficult interaction to construct because you’re basically mixing and mashing the data from the two sources to get “the holistic view”.
Yes, it was difficult for us because we do – being a privacy app, right, we have, you know, we try to hold ourselves to data ethic standards that I think consumers hold us to so actually I think part of the challenge was keeping some of that data integrity to our customers and making sure that really the data that we were using was being used for aggregate, right. When we’re using that type of data, we’re not trying to build user profiles, we’re really just trying to look for key patterns that could inform where we might be able to implement marketing initiatives to improve performance outcomes.
So, I think that was challenge one, right, and I think that’s a growing challenge in the mobile market that not only privacy apps will face in the next couple of years here but hopefully being a privacy app keeps us a little bit ahead of the curve.
I think the second piece of that was actually going back to our internal database, TelTech joining as our first marketer, I think the concept of trying to understand acquisition source and things like that were foreign to developers and really the database itself was not marketing-friendly, they were doing a lot of manual LTV calculations and it really just wasn’t efficient, right, we were spending a lot of time in manual work. That is just scratching the surface and integrating that, you know, cleaning up our database then getting us integrated with a mobile measurement partner, then getting us integrated with a CRM really helped us piece together the full customer journey really by acquisition source. I think the concept that acquiring a customer from Google Ads versus Facebook Ads has a different lifetime value was a learning period for us, you know, way back in the day but it really did unlock some pretty cool insights and helped our marketing strategy in terms of like tweaking KPIs.
Yes, sort of like where you’re coming from, literally, where the user’s coming from, where they’re going, you need to know that in order to make that path. You know, what about the actual choice of what to automate? I want to reality check a couple of things because I’m talking at all the events and all the conferences, I go out there and people are like, you know, they’re not like you, Giulia, a lot of people are further down from the learning curve to be quite fair and they’re saying, “Oh, automation, that’s great, that’s what you do for bidding”, right? That’s where we are, a little bit higher, perhaps. So, just to get a better idea of the checklist, you know, what can you automate, you know, learning from your example, you’re very, very far along and then there’s those at the other extreme – what should you avoid automating at all costs? So maybe you can give me your checklist of like definitely automate this, or at least try, you know, you’ve done your bidding, guys, great, move on up, try this or that next and what should you never automate?
So, going back to kind of my mantra of being as real and as foundational as possible, you generally – automation can be such a broad term, right, it can be anything from automating your data reports to send your emails, automating your marketing campaigns, automating your bidding – all of that, right, it’s such a broad topic in marketing that I think is broadly.
I think the way that we navigate that is trying to automate what is sensible and what is realistic, not necessarily what is sexy, at least from a foundational standpoint and I think the way that that works, right, is you’re picking things to automate that are relatively easy largely because we’ve had a tech stack that has allowed us to do so such as automating our push campaigns so that task is not repetitive.
But then really working to build, trying to take out all the mundane tasks that you can automate like data visualisation and getting that up to speed so that all stakeholders can understand what’s going on and you’re not pulling manual reports for your CEO every day. Like I said, trying to automate push campaigns so you can actually generate more win backs or better retention quickly and then once that foundation I think is built, right, and a lot of those tasks you’re able to get out of the way with automation, I think then you can focus on things that are really sexy.
You know, transparently it’s been two years, we’re still focusing on what’s sensible, you know, I think we’re kind of starting to get to the place where we’re looking at things that are more innovative. Right now we’re looking at how we might be able to build some machine learning models that would better help us get ahead of churn prediction, so I touched on this a little bit earlier but we do a lot of behavioural analysis to see how people in aggregate our using our products – what features are they using, at what time, how can we get more people to use those features by that time so that they can retain longer and building models like that I think is great for automation, right, because marketers know where to start when they are looking for campaigns further down the funnel.
That’s great information, great advice and you say where people need to start. We need to stop, actually, right now for another break, Giulia, could listen to you forever, I swear, I’m going to get in trouble because we went over just a little bit but it’s such good information so listeners, you know what you’re doing, you’re here to listen to Giulia, come back and do it right after the break.
And we’re back to Mobile Presence. I’m Peggy Anne Salz with Mobile Groove, we have Giulia Porter, VP of Marketing at TelTech. Giulia, I have to say I am enjoying this immensely, I love it when people just tell it literally, spell it and that’s what you’re doing, you’re telling us about what we need for our growth stack, you’re telling us why, you’re telling us about your own personal experience as well and that’s why I wanted to dive in here a little bit. You know, I have you here, I can reality check a couple of things, I can also get a litmus test, you know, a feeling for what really matters, what doesn’t.
Talking about marketing automation, you know, I’m doing a lot of research right now into how marketers view it, are they excited, are they anxious – what’s it for you?
I definitely see it as an opportunity. I think it is a little bit overhyped, I think the – like I said, automation can be very broad. In most marketing, other marketers that I’ve spoken to, I think there’s still some growth – maybe I’m speaking personally – that we have yet to achieve largely around, I think, data and I think there are some headwinds coming next year in the upcoming CCPA regulations, probably more to come, you know, just speaking in the US of course, GDPR internationally but I do actually see it slowing that wave down a little bit from what we’ve seen on the privacy front.
I think in terms of the opportunity for us, at least in our experience, machine learning I think allows marketers going back to just behavioural analysis, right, really being able to understand, you know, easily and quickly how people are using your products and how that’s leading to, you know, desired performance outcomes, whether that be retention rates, whether that be people converting to a trial and what they’re doing within that trial.
I think part of the reason that that is so exciting is because it’s very difficult to do manually and if you can automate that through machine learning and do some really cool things with, like I said, churn prediction and different things like that, that’s a huge opportunity for marketers because it can just continue to inform your marketing strategy and where to improve both your marketing and also the product, like I said coming back to collaboration, that can really bridge the gap.
So, I think that is really the opportunity there. I do definitely think that some of the privacy regulations upcoming, a little bit of a risk to machine learning, it really just depends on what you define as automation as well. But I do think, you know, it will and should in overtime free up marketers to be more strategic, be more creative, you know, and things of that nature.
And that’s really the idea. When I think about how you and Dan came up with your great idea, right, that’s what happens when you’re free to be creative and it’s not when you’re like doing all the manual drudge work that you can hand off to machine learning. So, in theory, you know, we can expect a bit more of marketers as this continues because in theory they’ll be able to think a little bit more about what advertising, what marketing is really all about. Like to ask you then to look at marketing, at this point, you know, we’re here, nearly at the end of the year. If you had to give people a scorecard, mobile marketers, how have they been performing literally, that’s it exactly – performance marketers, how are they performing? Looking at it from your perspective, what would you give them as a grade or say where they could improve because, again, you’re a Mobile Hero looking down on the events and the results of the year – how have we done?
This one’s so tough. I would say, depending on the curve, lol, I would give a B+ / A-. The reason I say that is on the B+ side, there’s definitely been some headwinds this year, I think the two biggest ones that we’ve seen on being a subscription service of course has been Apple being I think a little bit more strict in the regulations around things like subscription screens and of course the most recent iOS 13 update where you can, when you install an app, you can actually cancel your subscription – that I think has been challenging from a growth standpoint. We’ve seen conversion rates generally being more challenging to grow, so I think that has been a challenge that I think I hear most marketers having struggled with.
I think also like I said, you know, going back to privacy, there’s been a lot of action in data sharing, thank you Facebook, and also fraud, so those two things I think really, three things, have been very challenging to get us to that A- but I think despite that, the reason that I would move us to an A- is really the excitement that I’ve seen in UA this year. I mean, I think we’re seeing a ton more action from all different types of utility apps and really creative ads and that’s been really exciting to watch because I think in terms of where we were in spam coo-blocking, we were definitely ahead of the UA curve until really now and though, yes, there’s increased competition for us, it is very fun to see what other people are doing, how they’re marketing their products and really learning from other marketers while also competing which I think is really what makes mobile fun.
Love the positive view here, Giulia, I have to say. So, in a nutshell, we’re on our way, that’s it, you know, B+ / A- - you could put up a billboard on the way for marketers to read on the journey, saying, “Going into 2020... this is what you need to keep you on the road, keep you on track or inspire you...” what would it say?
It would just – it would honestly just be keep testing, keep innovating and keep analysing. There’s not really – I don’t have... I would avoid the sexy tagline for mobile 2020 as just, you know, it’s really just keep doing it, I think.
I wasn’t saying “Just do it...”
Just do it, keep doing it, I’m not infringing on any trademarks but...
No, I think the mobile landscape is still growing, it’s I’d say fairly more mature than it has been but there’s just a ton more opportunity, you know, in every vertical from a marketing standpoint, every channel, I think it’s just kind of keep it moving and that’s really I think how we’re viewing the next couple of years.
I like that, keep it moving, keep it rocking – should I raise my goblet of rock to you, Giulia, I’m wondering? I do indeed. Giulia, it’s been great having you on the show, people are going to be saying, “Hey, this was great fun listening in – how do we keep up with Giulia?” I mean, you’re writing over at Mobile Heroes and we’ll talk about that in just a moment but you, personally, what’s the best way to stay in touch?
On LinkedIn, love LinkedIn, Giulia Porter, find me hopefully pretty easy, though my name is spelt a little bit differently, but yes, love LinkedIn, love connecting with people. If you have mobile questions, certainly send me a note, always love chatting as you can tell, but yes.
Indeed, and we have those in the show notes, we have a link to your LinkedIn profile. And listeners, hey, friends, this is a wrap, the next weeks of course jam packed with more Mobile Heroes but there’s just one like Giulia, so if you want to read up on Giulia or any of the other Heroes in the series, then check out her blog in particular, check out the dedicated page over at heroes.liftoff.io.
And if you want to keep up with me throughout the week or find out more about how you can be a guest or sponsor on Mobile Presence, then you can email me, email@example.com, Mobile Groove is where you can find my portfolio of content marketing and app marketing services.
So that’s a wrap of yet and you can check out all the earlier episodes as always by going to webmasterradio.fm or you can find our shows on iTunes, Stitcher, Spreaker, Spotify and iheartRadio simply by searching Mobile Presence, so do check them out there. So in the meantime – remember - every minute is mobile, so make every minute count. We’ll see you soon.