The explosion of smartphones, the advance of commerce and finance, and the growing enthusiasm of young consumers for mobile apps have combined to make Indonesia the fastest growing and “most dynamic market” in South East Asia. But before you take the plunge, you need to do your homework. Our host Peggy Anne Salz catches up with Kelvin Saputra, Performance Marketing Manager at FinAccel, a financial technology company focused on reinventing financial services in Southeast Asia. Kelvin–a Mobile Hero recognized for his app marketing achievements–gives us the inside track on his local market and his pick of app categories sure to be a hit with users. He also provides us a new framework to find, test and scale the right user acquisition partners for your app.
So, we continue the series, the Mobile Heroes series here on Mobile Presence and my guest today is Kelvin Saputra, he is Performance Marketing Manager at FinAccel. Kelvin, it is great to have you here on the show today and you’re coming to us all the way from Indonesia so thanks so much for joining.
Hi, thank you, Peggy, it’s an honour for me to be part of Mobile Heroes.
It is indeed an honour for me to have you here on the show because I have to say I do believe this is the first time we’ve had a guest from Indonesia and I want to ask you a couple of things about yourself but also listeners stay tuned because Indonesia is a hot market and we’re going to get the inside track on that as well, so a high growth market perhaps for you and your app. But first, Kelvin, you know, you’re on the show, great to have you, just tell me a little bit about yourself and maybe also FinAccel.
Okay. A bit about myself – I am a Bachelor of Information Systems and I start my work at Tokobagus, now called OLX, and I changed job three times before joining my current company which Kredivo right now and a head company called “FinAccel”. And Kredivo itself, it is a digital creative platform that gives customers instant credit financing for commerce purchases and personal loans based on realtime decisions.
Okay, so one of those fintech apps but actually a lot more than a fintech app because it’s not just about the finance side of the equation, it’s all about the commerce side of the equation. You yourself, you’re a Mobile Hero, you have a data background which is great because that’s one of the things you need to make it in mobile marketing and app marketing, but what do you think has earned you the title of Mobile Hero? I’m just curious, maybe you’ve had an interesting campaign , hit the needle, moved the needle rather on your app and growth – what do you think got you this title?
I’m also curious why Liftoff offered me but I think it happened after we do QBR with Liftoff and then suddenly they offered me to be part of Mobile Heroes from Indonesia and I guess because the way we work and the way we evaluate the performance with them and also we share some achievement on our side like we grow like 30% per year over year and we constantly doing that, we constantly hit the target, we constantly the KPI and Liftoff be the one of our partner back then and they help us to achieve the KPI also. Any maybe that’s interesting to them.
I mean, you talk about just like, oh, by the way, we grow 30% year on year – that’s a big achievement, that’s something that a lot of listeners, a lot of companies listening in would be really happy if they could do that so you’re very modest, I’ll give you that, Kelvin. You know, I have to say I’ve been watching the industry, been reading a lot of reports, there was a Liftoff report recently but also one from Adjust and also some great stuff from AppAnnie, Apptopia – everyone out there talking about Indonesia. It is a hot market, a high growth market. Do you get that feeling when you walk down the street, do you get this vibe that you’re in a market on the move?
Yes, of course. You know, every day, people talking about some new start-up coming up, new fintech coming up and we cannot deny the fact that Indonesia is the largest country in South East Asia with more than 250 million peoples and economic growth is quite impressive, about 5% per year. So that’s why I think a lot of investors is coming in and a lot of new apps is rising every day and also this time the Indonesia government play a decisive role in the push for the country to become the biggest digital economy in the region. So, yes, Indonesia plainly has a huge market with great potential for entrepreneurs.
So, you know, some people listening in, because apps, if you do it right, apps are global business. What can you tell me about the audience there because, again, some of our listeners might say, “Hey, I’ve got an app, it might be a fit”, games are an obvious easy one to sort of take global but there are others that you can do, you know – health and wellness, fitness – maybe not fintech because I’m sure that’s tied up with regulations and, you know, you’re a booming market anyway, I don’t imagine there’s a lot of room for apps from the West but what kinds of app, what kind of genres could make it there or have you seen make it there?
I think the other genre that’s coming up is education and health. So, yes, there’s a chance for those two areas to grow in this year and next two years because education is big enough in Indonesia and there is one start-up that really big in Indonesia. I think there’s big challenge for a new start-up for coming in and a new business coming in for education and health.
So, education, health. The audience, I mean, how are the consumers with apps? I know for example, okay, South East Asia is varied, we say a region but it’s a region of regions, you know, there’s a lot of differences even between parts of Indonesia, for that matter. But I’m just wondering, you know, one thing is for sure, you have a population that is young, that is curious – are they using their apps, are they excited about them, are they very choosy, maybe trying one app one day and literally an hour later something else? I mean, how would you describe the app user, the typical user if there is such a thing in Indonesia?
Yes, the only thing is, I would say every people in Indonesia is curious about the new app coming up, so they will try a lot of apps like fintech in our industry, we know they are using a lot of fintech apps besides our apps, so the behaviour in Indonesia is really curious and they always excited about something new, something new app and they will love to use it and try it.
So it must be a challenge a bit for you as well, I mean, you have to be thinking, yes, it’s one thing to get them to download it but that’s global as well, it’s one thing to acquire a user, another thing to retain them. Is it – on the other hand, you’ve increased your results 30% year on year so you must have cracked the code somewhere. I mean, obviously it’s not a single answer but given that they are a young population, a curious population and checking out different apps – you’re still keeping them very, very loyal to your app. What do you think is the secret of that?
Yes. I think this is the culture in our company, it’s about customer, customer is our priority. So their needs, their difficulties, this really matters for us and understand them is our daily, daily task. So, the way we work is I would say every app that’s on our app is at least answer one problem and be a solution at least one problem of the users. So, we make sure that our apps is answer the curiosity, the problems, the needs of the users.
I’m hearing a lot like that, it’s about having that marketing and product very closely knit, as you said, you are solving a problem with the apps, that means with the product and probably also communicating that through your advertising as you acquire your users.
Correct. As a marketer, sort of product side do their job and as a marketer, what we are doing is to make sure the user gets the information and we deliver the message to the right customers so we just don’t broad target audience on our ads, we already know which user segment that we want to target.
Okay, so it’s not very broad, you’re doing a lot of thinking in advance about your audience and how you engage with them and I want to hear more about this, Kelvin, but we do have to go to a break right now. So, listeners, as you can hear, it’s going to be an interesting journey to another market and another way of doing business, so don’t go away, we’ll be right back.
And we are back to Mobile Presence. I’m your host, Peggy Anne Salz we have today Kelvin Saputra, he is Performance Marketing Manager at FinAccel, also of course the power behind the app Kredivo, I believe I said that correctly, did I not, Kelvin?
Yes, that’s correct.
I’m learning, I’m excited about I’m learning a lot, I’m excited about your market, I’m watching it because I always like to be sort of on top of the next big thing and Indonesia is absolutely, you know, ticks all the boxes. And before the break we were talking about how you approach app marketing because it’s a vibrant audience, a very youthful audience, not often so loyal because there’s a lot of choice but you manage to keep your users loyal and part of that is segmentation. Maybe you want to detail how you approach segmentation.
Yes. The most – I think this is the first step where we start segmenting our users. One day we know that our users, the user who registered at 10am up to 9pm is the best users that we can get. So, what we are doing on marketing side is we turn on the ads only on that time and that exactly works, we get a lot of quality customers and we get the best customers. But somehow it starts to get into the saturation point and we start to explore a new target audience, we create lookalike audience, customer audience from our back end and we get a lot more of new users and new behavior, new interest and a new segment of users like for 20 users who 24 and 35 years old, they really like to purchase electronics, they really like to purchase furniture, household things and we create a tailored campaign with electronic creatives and talk about electronics, talk about household and that’s the way we tailored our campaign with our user segment.
So, also a lot of dynamic creative going on here.
Yes, a lot.
And that usually has the impact of just seeming incredibly personal, maybe in your case, you know, it’s also showing that you sort of – I wouldn’t say that you care necessarily but that you’re interested in your user, you know your audience – is that what you’re trying to send as a message?
And I was wondering if you could give an example of maybe – first of all it’s very interesting that you note there’s a certain period of time that you have your most valuable user, that it’s up until 9pm. I’m wondering what is – and then after that, you just let it be organics, because you say you turn your ads on for a certain period and then the rest of the time you just sort of let the organics kick in, is what I think I’m hearing – is that your approach?
Yes, because I will give some picture of our apps is a finance app that allows you to get credit limit up to 3 million and...
And that’s not dollars, we want to be very clear about that!
Yes, of course...
Just kidding – everyone in the States is saying, “Hi, I’m going to apply for that one”!
Yes, but we know our audience, let’s say the people who are awake on 9pm above is most likely security or any people who work late. It’s probably cannot get our credit access because we know the risk is more higher than the people who work office hours.
I get it – that’s very smart, that’s a very interesting sort of post-install observation in activity because it makes perfect sense. If I’m working during the day, I probably have the type of job that qualifies me for the credit card but also, for the financing rather, but also for the commerce that I’ll be shopping, you know, at that level, I have a different lifestyle than someone who has to, say for example, work in the evenings. So that’s part of how you’re achieving this great success but another point you’ve made actually in a blog you’ve written recently and I will be sharing those details as well because it’s something we can all read, we all have access to and you give some great tips about how you think app marketers can achieve excellent results. One of these also being finding the right user acquisition partners as well and you have a very interesting graph that I’m looking at at this moment. I’m just wondering, did you come up with this framework on your own because of personal experience, you came to the decision that it has to be do testing, scale up, sync up, decide we’ll go into that in a moment – but where’s the inspiration for this, was this something that happened to you, something that you went through?
Yes, it’s based on my personal experiences, I worked as a digital marketer. You know, I guess every marketer begins with Facebook or Google as their starting point and on some certain point, you need something else to help you scale because of any reason. It may be you hit the saturation point with Facebook or Google. Usually we are looking for programmatic channel, ad network channel or some DSPs but the problem is there is a lot of them out there, every week, every marketer will get some random email or message through LinkedIn offering new partnerships.
The problem is how we can choose the right ad network or partner because we want a long-term partnership, we don’t want some random partnership and then cut it out and then look for another – it’s a real waste of time if we kept doing that. So, yes, I try to come up with new framework and I let them know how we operate, I let them know how we do onboarding with a new partner, if they want to in, they will have to follow our framework.
I like the idea that you tell them upfront what you’re looking for, I mean, the testing period. How long would you test with a partner? Is it like one campaign, a series of campaigns because at some point, you make the decision, okay, I want to scale up – you’ve hit the benchmark, I’m going to scale up. But how long do you watch it?
For us, seven days is enough and we start with about $100 a day and we give them the target, we give them the benchmark for our KPI. So, yes, we try to be fair with them in terms of pricing, in terms of anything they’re asking to help them to test this campaign.
And of course what I like about this is this is also very universal. I mean, you’re doing it there at your company in Indonesia but it’s a model we can follow elsewhere, you know, it’s basically you have a partner, tell them what you’re looking for, see if they’re hitting the targets, do that for a week... once they’ve hit the target, scale up – how much do you scale up, you know, in steps or do you just say, “Okay, that was great, I’m going to give you 50% more budget, let’s go and knock ‘em out of the park” or how do you sort of measure and scale and sort of keep that rhythm going until you decide yes, this is the one, we’re going to really dedicate to this partner?
We actually – that’s why sync up is really important for us. We do the weekly sync up to just review the performance and in terms of scale up, there is no exact formula for each partner, we always talking with them and we asking them how big you can give us after the testing. How they can give us more and how much they will give us more and how they will do it. So after we discuss, we try to scale about 25% or 50% the first time and we try again for another seven days. After the results show, we’ll decide for another scale up. So that’s the way we work with them.
How do you also just keep a watch, you know, a watchful eye on mobile ad fraud because it’s everywhere and I’ve spoken to tons, you know, people at all the events where I attend and they always say, “Yes, we’re watching it, you have to live with it, you have to live with a certain percentage of it, it’s just reality”. But how do you perhaps look at it also being in Indonesia, is there a different approach to being watchful and combating ad fraud?
Yes. It’s quite unique for us, actually, because we do facing a fraud after install because you know we are fintech, we can give credit, we can give cash to them, so there will be a lot of fraud inside our app also and that way, we have our own fraud team to maintain the fraud coming in and we always give our North Star metrics that metric is approved. So for people to get approved, they have to install our app, register to it and then get approved. So we tell all the journey to partners and we tell them how big the fraud on the first step, how big the fraud on the second step and we give all of the data, we give all the benchmark and our partner will do something about it and if the fraud level is above our benchmark, we decide to not pay for it and that’s our deal on app fraud.
That’s what I’m hearing throughout this, you know, it’s a lot about being exactly that, very upfront, you know, you do your testing, scale up, sync up with a partner, make decisions based on data, based on this very interesting framework that I’ll be telling our listeners about later where they can check out your blog and other information but Kelvin, we do have to go to a break just one more time, so listeners, don’t go away, we’ll be right back.
And we’re back once again here at Mobile Presence with Kelvin Saputra, Performance Marketing Manager at FinAccel and a Mobile Hero. And Kelvin, I have to say I am delighted to have you here on the show because I’m learning also a lot about Indonesia which, as I said, is a market that we are all going to have high on the radar going forward. High growth market and your results prove it as well, I mean, 30% increase year on year is not a small deal and certainly not in a country of yours, 250 million people, an oil-producing nation, so, you know, there’s a lot going on there. And I would imagine in many ways when you look at it globally there’s a lot that West can learn from East, I’m convinced of that. So, you're a marketer at a super app, you’re a Mobile Hero, you’re in Indonesia – what do you think we can see in the way of learnings or what you’re leap frogging – what can we learn from an app like yours in a country like yours?
Yes. I believe every country is unique and have a different way to penetrate into the market but there are three things that important for us and this is our culture of doing anything, the basis of how we work. I will say it’s triple C. So, the first one is the Channels, talking about how can we get into the customers, on which channel they ultimately spend their times and for a country like Indonesia, people is always on social media.
Yes, the most time they spend is on social media. So, that’s the first channel that we have to tap into because they’re young people, millennials in Indonesia, it’s really active with their phones. So channel is important for us, we need to tap into the high traffic channel in Indonesia.
And then the second one is Creatives. What message or what content that we need to deliver because our young people or millennials very like to see like eye candy picture, discount, numbers so they are really engaged with that kind of message. So, we have to craft tailored campaigns, ad assets, video banners with some elements that engage them. So, that’s a daily AB testing that we are doing right now so we know which creative is the best, which creative is most engaged with them.
And the third and the last is Customers – who is your customer, who is your right audience? Because for apps like us, the fintech, we cannot give the creative access to anyone because we don’t want to get a lot of people that can get the access but we want the people who get the access and pay back to us because there’s no point if you have a lot of users but all of them is fraud. They get the money but they didn’t pay back to us. So customer is really important for us. We need to know which customer segment that will pay back after we give the loan or which users will pay back after we give the credit access. So, yes, I think that’s the basis for us to grow our apps and business.
And I love the way it’s in three Cs, I wasn’t planning on that so that’s, you know, very well organised and of course great lessons that we can all apply because it is really about that, it’s not about getting all the users, it’s getting all the best users for your app, the right users for your app, the valuable audience for your app. So definitely some learnings that our listeners will want to listen in to when they hear the podcast, also read your blog and probably want to connect with you as well offline. What’s the best way to do that, how can people keep in touch with you?
I think LinkedIn would be the best way to keep in touch, anyone want to chat or asking anything, would really love to answer that.
Okay, and we’ll include those in the show notes as well. And I have to say, Kelvin, it was a pleasure having you on the show today, thanks so much for making the time.
Thank you, Peggy, it’s an honour for me.
Well, great and maybe have you back at some point and of course, listeners, if you want to read up on Kelvin or any of the other Mobile Heroes in the series, and check out that very well written, very well organised blog, check out his page and all others over at heroes.liftoff.io.
And if you want to keep up with me throughout the week or find out more about how you can be a guest or sponsor on Mobile Presence, then you can email me, firstname.lastname@example.org, Mobile Groove is where you can find my portfolio of content marketing and app marketing services.
And that, my friends, is a wrap of yet another episode of Mobile Presence. Be sure to check out this and all earlier episodes of the show by going to webmasterradio.fm or you can find our shows on iTunes, Stitcher, Spreaker, Spotify and iheartRadio simply by searching Mobile Presence. So until next time – remember - every minute is mobile, so make every minute count. We’ll see you soon.